FOP016: The Future Of VR Therapy with Nik Vassev from Novobeing

Podcast Ep 16 – Nik Vassev from Rocket VR

Bruce Bassi: Welcome to the Future Psychiatry podcast. Today we have Nik Vassev and he’s the co-founder of Rocket VR, which he co-founded in August of 2021, which I understand was probably right into the middle of the pandemic and we’ll, talk about that. Rocket VR is a Boston based startup offering digital therapeutics and an immersive mental health platform with guided support groups, mindful meditations and transformational VR experiences.

So can you tell me a little bit about your story, about how you got involved in co-founding this platform? I’m sure, taking off like a rocket, no pun intended.

Nik Vassev: Thanks for having me, Bruce, really appreciate it. really happy to be part of the podcast. So yeah, we, we started rocking vr with a mission to help improve patient experience specifically starting off in cancer. Um, so my co-founder Sid’s father had a very long battle with cancer. And what Sid found is there wasn’t really a lot of complimentary mental health and wellbeing support for patients undergoing these types of treatments. And a lot of the conventional 2D, um, digital therapeutics or wellbeing applications just weren’t cutting it. And, we felt that using virtual reality as a way actually escape situation into beautiful nature-based environments, um, and be able to access proven mental health support going through the same thing. Would be something that could revolutionize supportive care for patients that are hospitalized.

So that’s, that’s where we started and, and we’re really focusing on that Um, but we’ve developed multiple solutions for other types of uses within the healthcare environment. And now we’re getting ready to launch something for the end consumer within the app store, which Is um, more general stress reduction wellbeing application that is uh, based on mindfulness, breath work, as well as gamified cognitive behavioral therapy.

Bruce Bassi: Is there like an ideal model type of patient with certain characteristics who do particularly well in VR that clinicians should be cognizant of? Somebody who’s maybe more interested in mindfulness, this would of taking it to another level, who do you see giving you very, very positive feedback in their usage of the VR system?

Nik Vassev: Yeah, So one, one of the main things that we’ve learned through our research is VR is not for everybody. And a lot of people that are not tech savvy do have this kind of fear of, of trying something new. So then we find that maybe about 20% of people, they’re just not willing to do it a lot of the, time really the older people that are kind of just not there yet. We’ve done a lot of work to make it as easy as possible to actually be able to use vr.

When we started off, we didn’t want to use controllers. We started using gaze based control, so all your selection is with your gaze. And now the, the hardware over the last two years has greatly improved, so then now you can fully use your hands and not your gaze. So then we’re launching a new version that is, with, with hand tracking.

But you know, for our specific– And specific research that we’ve done has, has been with patients undergoing cancer treatment, they have cancer related distress and other comorbidities. But we really do see the best use case for vr that we are working on is, is really helping people meditate better, helping them go into a different virtual environment. And then also the gamification and increasing the engagement of cognitive behavioral therapy is really what we’ve been focused on. But I think for other clinicians looking for this technology, I think that’s, you know, some of the most research has been done in exposure therapy. There’s several, you know, amazing, applications that are used for fear of heights, other sort of phobias as well as PTSD and exposure therapy.

So I think those are probably the most transformational uses of virtual reality technology. But from our perspective mindfulness is a very challenging thing. We all know that we should be doing more of it, sitting with an audio and, and just listening to it and when you don’t know really how to do it can be greatly improved with virtual reality where, you know, we take it to an environment that changes your mood.

We have, you know, surround sound music that is incredible. And then you have this interactivity where you can time, your breath and at the same time, attend different classes without having to drive somewhere. You can just do it from the comfort of your home.

[00:05:14] How did the pandemic impact the growth of the company?

Bruce Bassi: That’s awesome. That’s really cool. So Rocket VR started in August, 2021, in the middle of the pandemic. Did that have anything to do with your approach? How did that impact the growth of the company? Because obviously around that time a lot of mental health therapists were fully virtual, and that kind of leads into one of my questions was how do clinicians, work it in a virtual format?

I know it’d be a lot easier in person, but maybe we can get to that later. I, I’m just kind of curious, when you started off in the middle of the pandemic how things were sitting with you all.

Nik Vassev: Yeah, I think the pandemic made it I guess made it possible to be able to look at virtual care as a really great option for patients. And then I think, you know, going from 2D to immersive, is the evolution that we’re undergoing. And it will be coming really soon in terms of kind of a broader adoption of, of those devices.

But I think the way that it affected us is you know, we all know how Overwhelming it may be, to be able to actually find a clinician that you want to work with and then be able to have the insurance coverage to be able to pay for it. And then also, you know, during the pandemic, I think the increase in, in mental health issues really spiked up.

So then it really made what we’re doing in terms of having a complimentary solution to, to some of these mental health problems. Really kind of inspired us to, to be able to go and do this. It just, it’s unfortunate what happened and I think the world will never be the same.

But I think from a virtual care perspective, I, I think it just opened up , the gates for , new different technological approaches to deliver care at scale.

[00:07:03] What is the limiting factor in more widespread use of VR?

Bruce Bassi: That’s really, really neat. I had used VR once and it was quite a powerful experience. It almost sometimes surprised me that it’s not more utilized, clinically. What do you think is like a limiting factor? Is it the cost or lack of familiarity with it? Why isn’t more widespread do you think?

Nik Vassev: Yeah, I think it, it’s just the, the, the hardware. So we really started getting you know, standalone VR that is affordable and then it works well about three years ago. So then prior to that, you know, you would have to have a really expensive, like $2,000 plus computer and hook up the VR to the computer.

So then now that you know, you can have a, a great performing hardware set that doesn’t need to be connected to anything has strong battery life. I think that’s really when the adoption is coming. But at the same time also, If you tried VR in 2016, 2017, like the graphics aren’t that good.

And then when you’re, when you’re having to create an intervention that’s vr, but then it’s not believable, you get into this thing called the “uncanny valley” where you try to make a, a virtual world look like the real world, but it has like this, like weird feeling about it. You might have seen that in, in some of the avatars, for instance. Photo that Zuckerberg took with the Paris, like right. It’s kind of uncanny, it makes you feel uneasy because it’s like, it’s trying to be real, but it’s not real.

So then we’ve really been kind of testing a lot to, to figure out like, you know, how do we create something that is not trying to copy nature, but, but or not try to copy the real world, but it creates a new virtual world that, that it’s unique on its own. And I think now the performance is getting amazing on some of the devices. They’re becoming much more lightweight.

And then from a patient comfort perspective, if you have something that’s really heavy, they can’t wear it for a long time, but then now their, the headsets are more ergonomic. So then you’re able to actually have the weight on the back.

The battery powers increased now that there’s cameras catching your hands. So then you don’t need controllers because within a healthcare environment, if you think about it, you used to have to have your PC hooked up to, to the headset with the controllers. Like how do you store it? How do you sanitize it when, when you’re changing it, you know, the batteries of each controller are, are going off. Do you need the headphones that go along with it? So then the, I think the big issue with right now kind of where we evolved to is, is really, there, there’s a lot of components and then there’s also a lot of steps for people to actually learn how to do it, where it should be as intuitive as, you know, how you would interact with the real world.

And I think a lot of companies are, are moving towards that direction where you make it, as intuitive as how you would click things in, in real life.

[00:10:09] How would someone use VR with a virtual patient?

Bruce Bassi: Say there’s a clinician who does exposure Prevention and they have a many patients who are virtual now. What would be the steps in which they can start to incorporate VR into their virtual practice? I understand there’s like maybe a, a module that you can fit your phone into, right? Does that quite do it justice or do you feel like that they’re missing out on a lot and they’ll be getting a very poor representation of what VR is like when they use one of those headsets that just basically has your phone really up close to you?

Nik Vassev: Yeah. I’ve, it would be very incomparable, I would say when you do have that there’s a really great platform. They’re called Amelia Virtual. That they have over 140 different environments. A lot of it is exposure therapy and clinicians can just get a subscription, it ships the VR headset to them, and then they can use it with, with their patients in person.

There’s also another company that it, it’s more of like a telemedicine clinic where they do VR via telemedicine with some on demand things which is called XR Health which could be interesting as well.

But I think it’s really figuring out where within your protocol you want to be using this technology and then, testing it out and making sure you’re comfortable with you using it within your practice.

Just because sometimes it may be the shiny new thing of vr, but in some cases, you know, it’s much better to have, for instance, like one-on-one. The way that we are right now, this is better than vr, but let’s say that we want to have something group and then there’s 10. And we’re bringing 10 people in, that’s when we want to be able to, Hey Bruce, come over here with me and let’s have our own conversation and then we can all get together afterwards.

So I think from a group perspective, VR is really great for some of these interactions, for exposure therapy is really good. And then for what we’re doing within the inpatient setting with relaxation education and cognitive behavioral therapy. I think those are really the, the really good uses wi within patient care.

[00:12:19] How will avatars change in the future?

Bruce Bassi: In the group setting, I know that the typical model that was kind of ushered in by Zuckerberg has would have basically avatars waist up avatars. I’ve heard a little bit of criticism about that because it, it does kind of feel a little bit uncanny. I was looking, listening to some predictions by Neil Patel, who, who felt like VR will eventually be huge, but we have to work on more realistic 3D models of an actual person to feel like little bit more immersion, more, more of that social engagement with a friend perhaps, or somebody you know that is also in that virtual world.

What is your take on. The avatar situation. Do you feel like that’s, that’s good enough for now, or do you feel like it’s gonna eventually change?

Nik Vassev: They’re, they’re gonna get like, so real very, very soon too. So, I think it’s just step by step, a lot of A lot of us that are not like deep into tech will not, you know, we don’t see what’s happening with the lenses and there’s like a billion dollar spent on the lens, but you don’t know but you’re like, this avatar’s not good.

You know? So I don’t know. But it’s really about performance. So what I’ve learned working with our developers and our team there’s certain things you do in the virtual world that take so much processing.

For instance water water’s very challenging cuz there’s reflections off the water and you move around and the lights change of the water.

And then also if you’re, if we talk about plants, you know, there’s so many leaves moving around. So then all of that is using that you know, performance. So then when you think about performance and you have 10 people in vr, That look like us, great humans, in good avatars. It just is so much processing.

So I think there will be more iterations of the hardware to get to a point where we can have really amazing avatars. You can look up, it’s called Metahuman. Those are like the best avatars right now, but you need like very powerful hardware to, to use the me metahuman avatars. What we are doing for ours is for, for some of our group meditation and breathwork sessions, you actually come in as a energy orb, so then you don’t even come in as a human.

But every energy orb is unique like a snowflake, but then we don’t need, you know, you don’t need to know you, you can come in anonymous, you can come in as Bruce in the future we’re gonna add, you know, different avatars that, you know, you can choose to come in as whoever you want. But we really wanted to have that more inclusive, anonymous type space for some of these things just because you are, you know, doing meditation and breath work.

So it doesn’t matter what sort of haircut you have or what shirt you’re wearing, it really matters like, you know, you’re, there is you and you know, as your essence, as you’re being with within those spaces.

[00:15:10] Are there options for clinicians or do you mostly offer on demand options for patients?

Bruce Bassi: Interesting. So you your company markets towards like, on demand types of options for patients too, and also there’s a way to integrate more clinical work If, if a clinician was to guide a patient, is that right, or, or do you not have a setup like that?

Nik Vassev: So we’ve, we’ve mainly been focusing on the on demand aspect. So we’ve, we’ve taken a proven treatment protocol that we partnered up with MGH Hospital in Boston and they have a really good distress management protocol for patients that are hospitalized that’s based on positive psychology, acceptance and commitment therapy and cognitive behavioral therapy.

And then we translated that It took a long time. It took like maybe like nine months to, to working with the clinicians to actually translate it into a, a one month long program. So it’s about 15 minutes a day, four hour run time. There’s about 18 cognitive behavioral therapy games. We have eight nature environments. And then we scanned the clinician to come in as a hologram to actually deliver the learning lessons. So then that, that’s our digital therapeutic we developed for patients that are hospitalized undergoing stem cell transplantation.

And now we’re creating one that’s more general purpose. So then it’s any patient in, in That is hospitalized can receive a headset and then lower the stress, improve the overall patient experience and, and other outcomes.

But when it comes to the live support we’ve done a lot of tests to see how how it would work in terms of this whole like metaverse, multiplayer communication. Because of the issues with the avatars it’s not as good as this, you know, it’s not as good as 2D right now.

So then what we decided is we wanna be able to build the infrastructure to be able to do it really well at scale. And we, we really feel like it’s best to start with the meditation and breath work classes where people can come together. And then we’ve also built these interactive education centers that are very similar to kind of like a interactive museum that, that you can attend.

But we are building clinician tools as part of it. So then a clinician will be able to actually you know, pull up a presentation, pull up a video pull up a, a, a brain, pull up a body, and actually move things through. So then you can say, the first one we’re doing is a stress response.

So then you can actually press, you know, pull up the brain. It shows the stress response on, on the brain and the body. And then it, it’s a very interactive way for you to actually, you know, share a lot of this knowledge. So, so people understand. And then also being able to pull out different meditation exercises and then be able to mute the participants. Unmute them.

So those are some of the features we have for the live sessions that, that we’re working on. And then that will be live we’re just in testing that right now, but it, it will be live very soon. We envision this to be a, a way for each healthcare institution to host different classes.

And we’ve also got a lot of meditation and breathwork teachers that are gonna start offering these classes on our platform. So then anybody who is using our solution, they can go click the class and see what’s available and then be able to select which ones they want to attend.

[00:18:31] What do patients say about their experiences?

Bruce Bassi: Gotcha. What has been some feedback that you’ve received from patients? Or maybe you can speak from personal experience if you’ve used it before, but it, it seems like it’s quite immersive and, and one thing that I always remind myself when I tell people to start meditating is that, In studies, you know, the, the benefits aren’t seen right away.

You do need to stick to it. And I’m sure the same holds true for VR type of based meditation, mindfulness. So, you, there’s probably a little bit of coaching that’s involved too, but tell me a little bit about what patients have described in terms their experiences working with it.

Nik Vassev: Yeah, so some of the patients I guess we, we got the data back from, from preliminary data back from our first study. So our first studies with Dr. Linda Carlson at the University of Calgary. So she’s a mindfulness expert. She’s written several books on it. So, she had a, a, a bit of a challenge where, a lot of people want to do mindfulness, but they don’t know how to do mindfulness.

And some people find it boring to actually just sit and, and meditate. So then we felt that, you know, VR can make it more interactive. And really the best feedback that, that we, we did get was you know, people felt that being able to visualize their breath and then do the timing without, you know, having to count 1, 2, 3, 4, like you can actually see it in front of you really got that, got them to be able to pick up and actually start seeing the results. So then a lot of the patients in study they started, they ended up going from like, not meditating enough to meditating like five days a week or every day.

And then we’ve learned a lot from that in terms of how each person’s so unique in terms of what they want for, for these environments. So then it’s really got us to get into a lot of this personalization where we can actually personalize the, the environment the music, the narration, the breathing exercises, so then people can actually you know, interact with this tool much better. But I think it’s just, it’s adding additional senses and it’s turning off the distractions and then putting you into places that will naturally, you know, change how you feel just because of where you are.

[00:20:51] Why do you have game designers on staff?

Bruce Bassi: Yeah, there’s been a lot of data about how gamifying a particular Challenge or task or issue or mental health issue can be quite helpful. And it sounds like it also helps to, like in the, the example you gave of being able to see breath work instead of put that cognitive burden on oneself to, to do the counting it allows them to focus on something that’s maybe more pertinent and relevant to the task at hand.

And I know that you have a few game designers on. is the strategy that Rocket VR has had there to, to maybe try to have more engagement or, or better user experience? Or, let me hear from you in your own words about why bring on game designers for a VR experience for mental health.

Nik Vassev: Yeah. So, we’ve learned so much from, from our gaming team and it’s, it’s just so interesting. So, A lot of what, what me and my co-founder have done is be a conduit between the game designers and the psychologists and mental health experts to make it engaging. Because sometimes it’s, it’s really challenging to work from you know, a 2D world where both me and my co-founder, we, we developed many different applications, you know, in the 2D world. And it’s just so, so different when you’re in the virtual world because you are dealing with the spacial aspect of everything. So then, you know, the way that people interact, the menus and then how you make things engaging and actually keep people coming back are really big challenges.

So then you know, you can’t really. In the beginning, we, we really thought that, you know, the doctor hologram, delivering the lesson would be great. And then we found that you know, you can’t just take a, you know, a better version of the video and put it in front of someone in a VR headset and think that they’re gonna interact with it.

So then now with everything that we’re doing is we’re making the user an active participant and then making it a journey and having a storyline, like a movie or like a video.

So then in that way people are much more engaged and they want to continue. So then our, our, our, our team, you know, from the gaming side are, are really making it like, how do we get people to engage?

How do we get people to really enjoy the experience because it nee it needs to be fun and then it needs to be easy to. And I think that’s when people forget that there are doing mental health exercises. And the craziest thing is like I learned so much from our, our, our product myself. One of the coolest things is like, we had this um, this one game where it, it was uh, learning about , the different ways to cope with stress.

And then there’s problem focus coping and emotion focus coping. I had no idea, but the guys build the game. I’m playing the game and I learned that I was using the wrong coping strategies for the wrong things. And I’ve been able to change and I’m like, this makes sense. But to be able to play a game, to learn that, and then have it visually, you know, you remember it visually because you just played the game and you got it wrong and you got it wrong, and then you, you got it right.

You’re like, ah, that makes so much sense. So it is just the gamification of therapeutic concept. By game designers, I think is, is something that’s very transformative. And I think in the future especially with kind of like where AI’s going, you know, we’ll be able to really like do it at, at a, at a grander scale.

[00:24:31] How will AI be incorporated into VR?

Bruce Bassi: That’s a feature that I don’t think you would get in a one-on-one talk therapy session, but it’s hard to describe that advantage to a, a patient or somebody else. Just saying, yeah, it’s easier to kind of click better with a game, but I think that is kind of a great great added advantage that VR has over in-person session.

obviously recently ChatGPT was developed, AI seems to be on quite this explosion lately in a, it sounds like you wanting to kind of refine the craft that you have and the model and the package and the product, but what types of features does, does AI open up to Rocket VR for, for new environments, et cetera?

How is, what is the team thinking of there?

Nik Vassev: Yeah. So, we’re thinking about it as in terms of environment creation. So like in the future I don’t know if you’ve seen Midjourney or like how AI art is being created.

Bruce Bassi: Yeah, dALL-E. Mm-hmm.

Nik Vassev: put some prompts and then it creates it. So it’s doing it in 2D now, soon it’s gonna do it in 3d. Some of the guys we’re working with they do it in 3d, so it speeds up the prototyping process, so then you can prototype much faster.

But what’s really interesting is we’re really thinking about how do we create the perfect environment for Bruce. You know, because what you like is gonna be different than what I like. And that, that was big learning from the University of Calgary. So Calgary’s up in Canada, mountainous ranges, lakes, it’s gorgeous, it’s beautiful.

So, the main thing that patient’s doing the meditations is they’re like, we don’t want to go to the beach. I just want to go to the mountain all the time. And, and then they’re like, can I just go to the mountain? Like I don’t want to be going to the desert, to the canyon. I just want to go here cuz it reminds me of when I was a kid and I’d go fishing with my dad and it was the best.

So then if we can figure out, you know, maybe in, in the beginning, From self-reported data, but in the future, based on like your eyes and where you’re looking and how excited you are about different things, the AI will be able to be creating the environments. And then that would just have such new kind of like new fresh places that you’re going to all the time.

So then you’ll be in a situation where you know, it’s always new in terms of the overall environment and experience. And then I think having the ability for you know, people to be able to have the conversational AI with an avatar within an education center within the metaverse, I think is something that is really interesting.

So, One of my friends, he built out an AI system. It’s like an AI pharmacist. So then you go to, and you say, I have a stomach ache. And then it asks you more of your symptoms and then it tells you, okay, you should go get this you know, drug or I think you should do this. So then we, we built like a initial education center.

You know, that, that’s very specific to a type of therapy. We haven’t launched it yet. We’ll be launching it in in the future. But we really want to be able to have you know, these places where kind of like Epcot Center or Disneyland that are fully educational. So then you can learn about how everything works. It’s very interactive.

And then within those places we want to have these avatars so that you can go and ask them questions. So then if you are in the area that where you’re learning about your brain, how the brain works, you can go and say, Hey, you know, I have this question and it answers it for you. But those are like the two ways where, you know, we’re, we’re exploring and, and, and want to kind of involve AI in, in, into our interventions in, into our solutions.

But I’m sure there’s ma many others, you know, that that will come in the future.

Bruce Bassi: Those are really interesting examples you gave. It sounds like the AI incorporates your own feedback, which is unique to you. You’re probably giving your feedback that nobody else gives and, and thereby creates an environment that is like a fingerprint. It’s totally unique to you and your experiences and how you’ve interacted with it, and it, it changes based on that feedback you give.

That’s really cool. Interested to see how that plays out with the users.

Nik Vassev: It’s gonna be really interesting where right now we’re going off of personalization based on self-reported data. Our latest version is, is based on mood and stress levels in terms of the meditations. So then you, but you actually have to select it.

But imagine like, you know, if you have an Apple watch and it knows that, hey, you know, you’ve kind of stressed out today, what if, what if the AI can create the environment that you need with the music that you, you know, would be perfect and you’re doing the breathing exercises that you should be doing to change the stage to being more calm or being more energetic.

So then really having the user just put ’em. Say, Hey, let’s do a 10 minute session or a 20 minute session, and then it just does it for you. I think that would be really interesting, and I think that’s definitely going to be coming.

[00:29:46] Where do you think we’ll be in 10 years?

Bruce Bassi: That’s so neat. Where do you think this whole VR environment and competition is going to be in 10 years? It sounds like there’s a lot there in terms of individualizing the individual, the person’s experience you incorporating AI more to make it a more, more impactful and more engaging, improving gamification.

I think that, you know, to a lot of the lay people, it’s, it’s very foreign. And so it almost has this like more of a tech kind of gamer, geeky kind of vibe to it. Like it’s a little bit too out of their normal comfort zone than just, you know, talking to person on a screen. But I think one we’ll get over that hurdle in, in 10 years just as we did with using Zoom on everyday calls and whatnot.

And so once I think you have more widespread adoption, It feels like it will be kind of a collective relaxation that people have and just more jumping in and engaging and sharing ideas with the, the public. But what do you, what do you think about where we’ll be in 10 years?

Nik Vassev: Yeah. I, I think that the spatial web within healthcare is gonna be a very visited destination. So then just like how, you know, currently you would visit you know, a 2D website, you would probably go visit an actual place and then talk to actual people that, that are staffing this. And then be able to go and, and get that support.

And then learn more about, you know, what you’re looking to do and what sort of you know, kind of questions you may have. But it’s going to bring more of that kind of like real life touch to some of these experiences. And then I, I also think that VR as an adjunct to some therapies is gonna become the standard of care.

Especially for, you know, exposure therapy, phobias, pks, d like, I think it’s gonna be something that is, you know, you actually you know, everybody starts using it for that just because it, I think it is really you know, any sort of therapy where the person needs to imagine. Something like it, it would be better if it’s just, you know, it happens and then they experience it versus having to imagine that thing happening.

Bruce Bassi: Yeah, that visual feedback is way more powerful than just imagining something

Nik Vassev: Mm-hmm. But I, I, I do feel like, you know, in 10 years time the hardware is, is gonna be like this, you know, regular. Glasses, conventional glasses. And so then there’s this new nanotechnology. It, it’s, it’s like a, a film that goes on top of it. So then the processing can be done on, you know, in the cloud going right into the glasses. So then it’s not gonna be big and bulky, just gonna be, you know, very thin glasses. And then it’s gonna have this layer on top of it where it’s just gonna layer in the augmented world on top of it where at work we may be using the mixed reality like vr, ar, headset, but then so many people are gonna be just using the smart glasses, which, you know, will not fully, you know, get you into the virtual world, but you’ll still be able to really go and, and explore and, and see a lot.

But I think a lot of our communication really will be moving to, to this kind of virtual realm you know, from the 2D to, to the spatial web.

And then, you know, we’ll have to see how it goes because there’s so much of the technology to figure out. And then also the adoption of people because there was all this excitement about, you know, the vr, the Metaverse, and I think that the, the hype around it went a little bit too much.

But I do feel like there’s just so many amazing companies working in the space, specifically within healthcare that are very you know, changing lives. And it’s used, you know, in mass with some of them where It, it’s so crazy. Like have a non-pharmacological intervention for pain that uses VR meditation and it’s FDA cleared and it’s doing incredible work.

Or schizophrenia or the, the work in PTSD like, there’s just so much amazing innovation and I think as the data improves and more people have the devices, the accessibility of it, it is just become commonplace and part of our health ecosystem.

[00:34:25] How can someone get started with VR?

Bruce Bassi: Cool. Thank you for your thoughts on that.

Say a clinician who’s listening wants to get involved today, would they go to your website to buy the headset or do you offer this software and you need a different headset? And would insurance ever pay for a headset for any sort of medical condition or psychological condition?

If so, which, have you seen that before? Can you, can you walk through somebody and and kinda describe to them how they would get involved?

Nik Vassev: Yeah, for sure. So, for us our, our current solutions are very focused to inpatient care and then also relaxation education within the waiting room. So then if anybody’s interested in that we have a full package. So you’re gonna have the software, the hardware, the protective case headphones we have sanitization stations, so they’re uvc nonchemical, sanitization, sanitizers within 60 seconds.

And then we also have the professional support customization, and then we white label it. So then, you know, the healthcare provider’s branding for, for those cases. But we’re really looking at you know, before radiation oncology treatment, before an mri being able to really de-stress the patients as they go in.

And then also if there’s any sort of hospital stay that’s longer than three days, that’s what our, our current solutions are designed for. We are also creating an application that’s for anybody to help lower the stress that’s meditation and breathwork based.

And that’s where we’re launching our classes feature so then you can go and join expert instructors and, and really learn how to meditate and progress from a beginner to an expert faster.

But I think in terms of. You know, clinicians that are looking to use it as a tool adjunct to what, what they currently offer, I think Amelia Virtual Care is, is the best for that.

It, it’s very feature rich. You have so many environments, so many tools, and it’s specifically designed for that. So I think if, if anybody wants to try it using it within their practice, you know, in person with their patients, I think that’s probably the best bet.

And then if anybody wants to actually currently has a VR headset and wants to get free lifetime access to our new product just visit our website and put in your email.

And then we’re, we’re getting set to launch here in the next few weeks with our new wellbeing application. Still like early version of it. So we’re, we’re, we’re giving it away free just to get feedback and improve it. But yeah, those would be the best things to do.

Bruce Bassi: Interesting. Cool. That sounds pretty exciting. I don’t have a headset yet, but I, I think I’m on the, the cusp of making the purchase. I’m really kind of curious to see how it would work and if I would be more engaged in mindful meditation for more than my typical one week, you know? So.

Nik Vassev: Well, let me know when you do, and I would also say just wait and don’t buy one yet. And also to the listeners. So in June there’s apples launching one. It’s gonna be really expensive, you know, depends what, what you want to do.

But Meta’s launching a new one, which is gonna be like the best one yet.

It’s like lighter, better. So I think if, if you just wait it out. I guess a few months you’ll, you’ll get the new one, or you can get the current one, which is still amazing, but you’ll get a discount on it, so you know.

Bruce Bassi: It’s like, an iPhone cycle all over again

Nik Vassev: Yeah,

Bruce Bassi: waiting for that September launch kind of thing with the iPhone.

Nik Vassev: Yeah. And you can see behind me, I’m just collecting all the different ones because they go, they go old so fast, you know?

Bruce Bassi: I see that. I see that you’re gonna have to show your grandkids how bulky they were back in 2023.

Nik Vassev: Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

Bruce Bassi: All right. Nik, thank you so much for sharing your insights and thoughts, opinions expertise on this field. I think it’s really cool and hopefully it was helpful to our listeners as well. So yeah, thank you for your time and appreciate you being on the show.

Nik Vassev: Thanks for having me, Bruce. Really appreciate it.